won't start now ..electrical issue?

If it's broken or just needs tweaked

Moderators: Volker_P, tidd650

Rocky
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:53 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby Rocky » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:40 am

I have found that using the owner's manual as guide is enough following all the instructions step by step has actually resulted in some rather frustrating results. When I was repairing the master cylinder the instructions to actually disassemble things were good but for bleeding brakes it took some thinking on my own to figure out things. So in short I have found that mixing the advice from the forum and using some from the manual has been helpful, the same goes for troubleshooting suspicious ideas, which the manual does not address.

User avatar
Volker_P
Posts: 5508
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:53 am
Location: southern Germany

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby Volker_P » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:11 am

When manuals are written, usually no real long term experience is available. I'd think the start procedure of the book will work from +5°C on.
And don't forget the environmental and social aspects. Possibly the air in 1980's Japanese industrial centers still contained enough unburned hydrocarbons to make it start this way well below that temperature. So please don't write angry letters to Honda as some very old Japanese guy might get cut his pension payments. :lol:
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum

digger650
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:43 pm

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby digger650 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:33 pm

Well ..still no luck with the starting problem.

Installed the replacement solenoid, and the fully charged battery, and did the full choke and throttle-twist 5 times routine: nothing. I mean, no start. Not even a sputtering start. I tried this 5 times ..even put some gas line anti-freeze in the gas (methyl hydrate). Not so much as a cough. I'm pretty well convinced its a fuel supply problem, as there is spark at the plugs. Any other suggestions???

User avatar
arcangel
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:53 pm
Location: Jeffersonville IN

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby arcangel » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:34 pm

You are right the instructions are for a new bike as the bike gets older the carbs get dirty and seals get hard and the bike is harder to start so extra ordinary measures are necessary to start it also the bike has been drained of fuel it has to be primed to let the air out of the fuel lines and to permit fuel to flow to the carbs also fuel additives are not as flammable and vaporization is lower than the fuel its self in most cases, also additives are to make the fuel not go bad do not necessarily make the fuel have a higher ability to burn just keeps it from decomposing and separating and keeps water from collecting in the fuel and cleans the carb parts as well.
Some additives are better than others so this is a bulk statement and may not always apply to all additives .
A>
<A

digger650
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:43 pm

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby digger650 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:04 pm

....okay ...a lot of info there. So, how do I drain the entire fuel system and then (with new fuel in the tank) "prime" the system to get new fuel to where its supposed to be?

User avatar
Volker_P
Posts: 5508
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:53 am
Location: southern Germany

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby Volker_P » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:14 am

You could put some fuel through the spark holes (1+4 are sufficient for convenience). Then it should sputter at least.
You may release old fuel from floater bowls by opening the screws at their bottom. At least for the piston carbs, I never found any need for a special prime procedure, just open the fuel cock, wait two minutes and fuel is everywhere where it should be.
A tank say more than 20% filled over winter should not need to be drained and refilled. And if fuel level is lower, just fill it up to get enough fresh fuel fraction (before you open the fuel cock).
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum

digger650
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:43 pm

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby digger650 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:15 pm

Well, the temperature got up to +5C (41F) today, and after a bit of putzing around, I got the bike started ...but only "kinda started". Turns out it was only running on #1 cylinder!! I noticed a puddle of fuel on the floor ...it had been draining out of the exhaust pipe on cylinder #4, and so I checked, and the only hot exhaust pipe was on #1 cylinder. What the heck is that all about. I checked, and there's spark at #4, but it doesn't seem to be firing. Do I have a serious electrical issue? I think my earlier starting problem was cold and fuel related ....

User avatar
Volker_P
Posts: 5508
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:53 am
Location: southern Germany

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby Volker_P » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:13 am

Sounds like you have mixed up #3 vs. #4 spark plug cables. #1 and #4 share one coil, same for #2 and #3.
Puddle of fuel is not the worst thing that can happen, I've blown up my rusty exhaust that way some time ago. :roll:
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum

digger650
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:43 pm

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby digger650 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:25 pm

Okay ...that sounds plausible. However, I haven't re-arranged the wires lately. Which order should the plug wires be in? Presently they are arranged as such: from the coil on the left-hand side (as viewed sitting on the bike), the top wire goes to the spark plug on the far right (#4 ?)(no number on the wire); the bottom wire goes to the spark plug on the far left (#1 on the wire); from the coil on the right-hand side, the top wire goes to the spark plug second from the far right (#3 on the wire); and the bottom wire goes to the spark plug second from the far left (#2 on the wire).

Assuming this wiring arrangement is correct, is there a way to check to see if the coils are good? If #1 cylinder is firing (the one on the far left which had the hot exhaust pipe), then it would make sense that #4 cylinder on the far right would fire as well, IF the coil was good ..right?

User avatar
Volker_P
Posts: 5508
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:53 am
Location: southern Germany

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby Volker_P » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:25 am

Your ignition wiring seems all right. The ignition is series arrangement which means each coil has only one secondary turn. In your case this means that at least the left coil is all right. Consequently, also #4 should run, except there is a problem with the #4 cable, cap or plug (or no compression any more on the cylinder).

But possibly there is nothing wrong but you just meant too well with the throttle twisting and flooded some cylinders. One or two will still sputter free when three or two are running, but three from one running might be difficult. Worth to try again.

Or maybe you had some "winter guests" in your airbox or the air chamber. Make sure that there are no things left by mice or so in your airbox (now possibly already sucked to the choke flaps).
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum

digger650
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:43 pm

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby digger650 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:25 am

Yes ...I guess I'm going to have to take the tank off and do some more snooping. Is there a way to do "resistance" or whatever testing on the ignition components to see if they are not fried, broken, or otherwise malfunctioning?

User avatar
Volker_P
Posts: 5508
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:53 am
Location: southern Germany

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby Volker_P » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:34 am

I think the book provides some procedures but the most straightforward procedure - as you have a running 2+3 system - is the swap of 1+4 vs 2+3 parts. But as also #1 works, in your case only coil, cable, cap and plug seem to be suspicious.
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum

digger650
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:43 pm

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby digger650 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:03 pm

Okay ....another "warm" day today (+2 C) so I had a chance to do some tinkering. I removed all the spark plug wires (one at a time) and checked and cleaned the ends, connections etc. I did a continuity check on each wire with an ohm meter. Wire #4 did have a poor connection, so I fixed that, and wire #3 had some serious corrosion at the coil end (fixed that). So now I know all the wires are good. By the way, what's that little "fuse-like" dealy in the boot at the spark plug end? (Kinda looks like a fuse from an old VW beetle!) Do those things go bad and need replacement?

With all my cleaning and tinkering, I still can't get it to run smooth, or get all cylinders firing. Does that mean the coil (s) are bad? Anyone had any luck buying used coils (Ebay?). Or should I be looking elsewhere for problem? Spark unit? Pulse Generator?

I find it really odd that such a problem could develop just from leaving the bike sitting idle for 4 months ...or would the 3 weeks of -40C weather be a factor??

User avatar
arcangel
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:53 pm
Location: Jeffersonville IN

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby arcangel » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:31 pm

if it was out side in bad weather it could be a problem.
as to the Spark unit? Pulse Generator? have you checked it yet if it is not set to the correct spacing gap you will not get a good spark and if the metal contacts have corrosion it will be a problem.
as to coils if you remove the spark plugs and reattach the wires to the plug and hold the spark plug grounded to the motor you can have some one crank the bike over and look for a good spark on each plug if any of the plugs don't have a good spark then you have some thing to check like the wires or the plug or the coil check them one by one also make sure the switch is set to run or you won't get a spark at all.

By the way, what's that little "fuse-like" dealy in the boot at the spark plug end? (Kinda looks like a fuse from an old VW beetle!) Do those things go bad and need replacement?

It is a resistor to cut down on the emi or electro magnetic interference the spark plugs make. They are not needed but with out them your bike will interfere with radios and cb radios tv etc.

I hope some thing here is of help to you and keep us posted on your progress.
A>
<A

digger650
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:43 pm

Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby digger650 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:00 am

Bike has been stored indoors, but not in a heated space. We're supposed to have another +2 C day again tomorrow, so I'll test the plugs against the block to ensure I have spark. I'll also check the Pulse Generator to see if there's an issue there.

If I was to replace the coils with Dynatek coils, does anyone know what particular model of Dynatek coil I should be looking at??


Return to “Technical Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests