won't start now ..electrical issue?

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digger650
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won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby digger650 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:20 pm

I put my 1980 650 Custom away for the winter in late October. I did the usual winterize routine: drained most of the gas, and added fuel stablizer; took the battery indoors and kept it topped up. I'm in northern western Canada, and it gets quite cold here (has been down to -40 in the past month) ...and the bike has been stored in my unheated workshop.

Today it was quite mild (-2 C) so I decided to fire the bike up: I added a gallon of fresh gas, and installed the fully charged battery. I used the recommended cold starting routine, but it wouldn't start. I checked the spark on all cylinders ...good. I couldn't tell if it was getting enough gas, or too much gas ...but after a while I could smell gas, so I figured it was flooded. I followed the FLOODED ENGINE starting procedure (page 31 of Owners Manual): turn the engine stop switch to OFF, and push the choke knob all the way down; open the throttle fully and crank the engine with the starter for 5 seconds; turn the engine stop switch ON and then open the throttle slightly and start the engine. This still didn't start the engine ...but then when I tried again, all I got was the solenoid click: the starter wouldn't kick in.

So, that's where I sit: solenoid clicks, but starter won't kick in. I removed the starter, and applied 12 volts to it directly ...it works. But the wire that connects to the starter is not sending current there. I have power everywhere, but not going to the starter.

Questions: why wouldn't the engine start the first time; and why, now, is the starter not getting power? What should I check?

Thanks for helping out the new guy!

cb650
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby cb650 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:15 am

First you should have put stabilizer in the fuel and ran it a little before draining the gas. If you drain the gas you should spray some oil in the tank to keep it from rusting. Sounds like your starter solinoid is stuck/bad.
Did you clean the tank out?!?!?!?!

digger650
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby digger650 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:40 am

You're right about the solenoid, as I expected as well. I shorted across the two main terminals and the starter kicked in. Is it possible that I burned it out by running the starter too long?

So, I'll replace the solenoid.

Now, I still don't understand why I can't get my bike started. Any suggestions?

PS: is there usually this little traffic on this forum???

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Buber
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby Buber » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:44 am

Traffic is as traffic goes... :lol:
Anyway, a tip - Our Hondas have the accelerator pump. BEFORE you start cranking, etc, twist the gas energetically few - 5 to 10 times. This will spurt the gas into the carb throaths, Then just a normal crank and.. brrm, brrm, bike goes!

My private method on CV carbs - never failed me.

cb650
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby cb650 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:25 am

Check to see if something built a nest in the airbox.
Yes we are slow over here. Was pretty busy over last summer.
Did you clean the tank out?!?!?!?!

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arcangel
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby arcangel » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:08 pm

You might try some starter fluid in the air box that will let you know if it is just a fuel delivery problem also check to see if the fuel shutoff valve is working and the off switch is not turned to the off position also check the two wires that run to the clutch handle if they get loose you wont get the bike to start it is a saftey thing. well that is all I can think of at the moment.
hope it helps :D
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Volker_P
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby Volker_P » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:13 am

Welcome here! :D
If you only get a click, your battery might be empty. It however may still be able to turn a removed starter (without load) moreover as removing will provide some time for the battery to recover a bit. BTW, the starter does not kick in like a car starter, it has a free-wheel clutch and the solenoid is the only click that is expected.
If your solenoid still clicks, the magnet coil is all right but internal contacts might be burned. As you can start by bridging it, that seems to have happened. First try to remove the main cables, clean contacts and re-install.
If still just clicks but does not switch the power, one may try to open the solenoid and clean the internal contacts.
For cold starting I also use the accelerator pump, try turning for a short time, then stop, give some twists again and turn again. Usually it works that way. Throttle must be closed, opening a small gap with the idle adjustment may help, however pulling the choke completely should open the throttle slightly, too (but the slight throttle opening is done by the choke very late).
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

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robsy
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby robsy » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:13 pm

Hi guys, I'm a new '81 custom owner. Reading these forums has been greatly helpful already, but I have some questions...

Can someone explain the cold start procedure in greater detail? I'm kinda new to this. What does it mean to twist the accelerator pump? Buber said to twist the gas 5-10 times before starting.

I have basically the same situation as Digger, except for the solenoid click. Starter turns, spark is good, battery is charged, new gas. No nest in the airbox. Arcangel suggests starter fluid in the airbox? How does that work?

Glad to hear I'm not alone. Thanks!

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arcangel
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby arcangel » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:37 pm

starter fluid in the airbox? How does that work?



You just remove the outside cover not the air box cover then spray it in to the air inlet spot and try to start the bike.

Can someone explain the cold start procedure in greater detail? I'm kinda new to this. What does it mean to twist the accelerator pump?

Buber said to twist the gas 5-10 times before starting.

Yes that is it twisting it works the accelerator pump and it sprays gas in to the carbs to help the bike start.

You should also fully choke the bike it helps to start it.
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Volker_P
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby Volker_P » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:26 am

Welcome here! :D
First make sure that you really can pull the choke completely. Pull the knob completely, then go with your fingers between the carbs and try whether the lever might go up further while the cable is already completely out. The choke cable might be adjusted directly at the carbs, especially it might get loose there.
Second the choke will open the throttle very slightly just before its full out position. So have a look for a slight movement. If it does not move, you may use the idle adjustment at the right side of the carbs to open the throttle a slight bit (just 1 to 1.5 turns). You need to turn back that when warm, however.
Turning the throttle (independent if starter is running) will spray fuel into the intakes. Do at least 5 twists with the throttle and try to start, choke pulled completely. Push the starter for a few seconds. It may sputter and go out. Just repeat twisting the throttle and pushing the starter. Next time it may sputter a few seconds longer. Don't try to enhance twisting or starter turning time as you may flood the engine. No need to hurry, give your battery some seconds to rcover. Just repeat until it stays alive, I'd say 5 times this procedure will do the job if nothing is really wrong.
Closing the fuel cock about 500m before you stop will guarantee fresh fuel for the next start after some standing time.
Good luck!
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum

robsy
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby robsy » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:55 am

Thanks for the help, guys.

I get the idea for the throttle "pumping." And I'll check into the choke cable when I get back out there. I think winter's decided to have another go at it in these parts. :(

On the matter of the starter fluid, you make it sound so easy Arcangel. Just spray it in and start it. Someday I'll understand all this, but for now, the only airbox I can think of is the one with the filter in it. Do I spray it in the filter? Behind the filter? And technically speaking, how does it work? I'm just curious, really. I've heard it can be dangerous stuff to use...

robsy
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby robsy » Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:29 pm

Greetings again!

Good news! She fired up and ran well today. Volker, your idea was just what I needed. Pumped it five times, and there she went.

Thanks again! :D

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arcangel
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby arcangel » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:16 pm

Kool Glad to here you got it going.

As to the spray for future use Yes spray it in where the filter is and no you don't have to remove it.
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Volker_P
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby Volker_P » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:24 am

Good to hear that your problem is solved now. Have fun! :D
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum

digger650
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Re: won't start now ..electrical issue?

Postby digger650 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:49 pm

Me again ...the original questioner. I'm glad to hear that others have had success with the tips passed on by other forum members. I haven't tried the successful advice myself because I'm waiting for the replacement solenoid to arrive in the mail. I didn't want to try starting while hot-wiring the solenoid.

While I appreciate that the advice worked, I wonder why that cold-start process is so much different than that recommended in the original Owner's Manual (page 30) for Low Air Temperature starting? Quote: 1. Pull the choke knob all the way to Fully Closed. 2. Start the engine, leaving the throttle closed. When engine rpm begins to pick up, operate the choke knob to keep fast idle at 1,000 to 2,000 rpm. To speed warm up, open and close the throttle, keeping the rpm below 2,700. About 6 minutes after the engine starts, push the choke knob all the way to Fully Open.

So ...as you can see, these instructions do not recommend operating the throttle before starting. These are the instructions I've been following, so I'm anxious to try the forum instructios (ones that apparently work!!). Perhaps these Owner's Manual instructions are for "new" bikes.

It's supposed to "warm up" to +1 degree C here in a few days (+34 degrees F) ...so I'm looking forward to the starting up the bike (if the solenoid arrives). I'll report back ...either way.


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