Charging System Issues

[flamdchicken]

My bike is not charging at all. I found this out when I decided to take it on a short highway trip and ended up bogging down while riding and dying on the exit ramp as soon as I exited. I thought something else was wrong, but jump it and it will fire right up. I took the battery home, charged it, had a friend drive me back to the bike and was able to drive it back home. Surprisingly enough, all my older bikes never had a charging issue before and so I have never had to do any work with them. I read the voltage across the battery and with the bike off it reads 12.3v, with the bike on/running its 11.7v. No matter what RPM it revs at it has a steady 11.7v and I imagine it will drop as it runs. I dug into the generator and stator. There was some gunk in the bottom of the seal where this little pin is at. It has some gunk, a broken plastic ring, and a small thin bare wire. The stator looks like what I imagine it should, however the generator I am not sure if it is supposed to look like this. It has this orange foamish like material that looks like it might have been used to seal the wires maybe?

Well I tested the stator resistance between the yellow wires, and my multimeter is on the cheaper end and doesnt have the resolution for what the service manual calls for (.41-.51 ohms), but mine reads it as .5 or .6 between the yellow wires depending on the pair so I believe i am atleast in the ballpark of where it should be and that there is nothing horribly wrong with the wiring of the stator. It also had no continuity to ground with any of the wires as the manual states.

Next I look at the regulator and I start seeing some hokyness. Some of the wires are spliced together for the connector to the stator. I take off the regulator and I see hand written on the bake 80 cb900 so I believe that the original owner had replaced the regulator and that is why the wires were spliced in. I look at the fuse to the right of the regulator and see a wire where I believe a metal fuse should have been. My guess is that the different regulator changed the amperage and voltage of the charging system causing him to blow that fuse so he just hard wired it. Also my ignition modules are nice and melty but still seem to work alright (but charging system isnt working right now).

So I am wondering if you all know if the generator is stock and should look like that, if the ignition modules are fine as is and dont need replacing, and most importantly, do you know what I need to look for/test for to see if the generator/stator are producing power. Basically can I test for some voltage across some of the yellow wire and some other wire to make sure that the regulator is the issue or something like that.

Thanks for the help.

Links to pictures in my dropbox, never had luck with uploading pictures through the forum:
https://db.tt/EOcox3vL
https://db.tt/Uo2rzW4z
https://db.tt/7XF1U20K
https://db.tt/A3gY8CNI
https://db.tt/3C7WGGeW
https://db.tt/LyvUtYVS
https://db.tt/DlfAXMNj

[Folsoml]

Your rotor has definitely been re-wound. Have you checked the ohm reading across the slip-rings? This, coupled with the improvised 900C regulator/rectifier, tells us that the previous owner had charging issues as well. Has the bike been charging at all since you've had it?

The wire-in-place-of-a-fuse is the main fuse for the bike. The device it is on is the starter solenoid. It is so common for this to have been rigged in this manner that when I get a new old bike, I count on it being this way. Only once have I found an actual 30 amp blade fuse there. I will usually splice in an in-line 30 amp fuse since these are more easy to come by (for me, at least).

[flamdchicken]

The bike has never been charging in my possession. I put a new battery in and it would die fairly quickly but I always assumed that was because I was trying to get it up and running so I was cranking it a good bit and it would run for a tad then cut back out, thus never having much time to charge. Well I tried when the rotor was on the bike and couldnt get a good connection, it was reading no continuity, but you couldnt even see the copper. So I just got finished taking it off and bringing it inside to get a nice polish on the contacts which now reads a very impressive no continuity. I guess I found my problem.

What do you suggest I do about the ignition modules and the regulator, just leave it as is? I will probably splice in some type of fuse to replace the wire as I am a bit concerned about the . Might just get some blade fuses from the local honda shop, they usually offer what they can get at a pretty big discount for smaller things like bolts and washers from the fiche. They show $1 per fuse if they are still available and I imagine I can get them for close to 50 cents or so, so I might just buy a handful.

[onepieceatatime]

Also my ignition modules are nice and melty but still seem to work alright (but charging system isnt working right now).

Common problem as well. Some have re-filled them with JB weld. If they are still working, no need to replace.

[Folsoml]

If the engine has been run for most any period of time with the bad rotor, it has almost certainly fried the regulator.

[flamdchicken]

Would there be any problem sticking on the new rotor with a bad regulator and seeing if it works? I have a new rotor from Tim shipping out today I hope so it shouldnt be too long until I have it.

[Folsoml]

I'll have to defer to someone else on this. I don't know if it works both ways.

[flamdchicken]

Do you know what the little plug on the bottom of where the rotor is for? I know it seals off oil, I accidentally nudged it out, but what's its purpose?

[flamdchicken]

I have put a new rotor in and at first everything seemed to work great. The rotor has 4.7 ohms between the sliprings, and when revved the battery sees 14.7v. I rode the bike around for a good bit, about an hour or so with no problems. Then when I stopped on a hill the bike died. I think what happened was that before the hill the carbs were just about out of fuel but still had a bit left and was running fine and so i didnt switch to reserve, but when I stopped on the hill with the lower rpms and the incline, the fuel didnt meet the jets and it died. Now alls fine right? I got a good charging system now, nope. The bike wont crank. After 30 min or so I manage to find someone with some jumper cables to give me a boost (tried pushing it down the hill to bump start it but this was before i switched it to reserve, then I pushed it back up the hill. Not going to do that again, ill just find some cables.)

I get home and turn it off and try to crank it back up again and it refuses. I let it cool and try again and it just barely gets going. I turn it off and try again with no luck. Before all this I read the voltage; 11.5v. Afterwards its at 10.9v. Why would this be happening?

[flamdchicken]

I have bought a small digital voltmeter so i can try and monitor the voltage as i ride and as the bike heats up. I am trying to think of where to wire it to. Im not much of an electronics person, does most of the wiring have the same voltage? My current plan is to wire it to the lines feeding to horn so that the meter shuts off when the bikes off. Does the horn have 12v to it? I would just measure it but its raining and 40 deg out and not worth it right now.

[Folsoml]

When I had voltmeter on my bike, I had it wired to the headlight fuse. I thing if you wire it to the horn, would it not only work when you push the horn button?

I'm confused by the trouble you are having with the charging issue. 14.7 volts should charge the battery. Did you ever change the regulator/rectifier?

[flamdchicken]

I never touched the R/R. When i was getting readings it was just idling from a cold start. After basically stalling I was unable to get it started again. I got a jump and took it home and turned it off. Measuring the voltage with it off it had somewhere around 11.5v instead of the 12.1-12.3v that it would normally have. I think what is happening is that when it gets hot something is shorting and is only getting 11.5v or so generated.

I have wired a few other things to horns before such as headed grips. I am not sure how it is really wired, but it has seemed to work before. Ill measure it before i splice everything in, but the headlight fuse is also a good idea.

Could it be that 11.5v is normal and that my starter solenoid is bad and pulling too much?

[flamdchicken]

FYI, the horn has 10.9v (same as he headlight and most of the wiring it seems) going through it without the button pressed.

[Folsoml]

Could it be that 11.5v is normal and that my starter solenoid is bad and pulling too much?

11.5 is definitely not normal. Even the 12.1-12.3 you say you normally got is pretty weak. The starter solenoid is just a relay that closes the circuit to the starter. It doesn't pull anything.

If you ran the engine with the bad rotor for any length of time, your R/R is probably bad.

Check out this link. I would not think the SOHC CB650 charging system would differ much--if any--from this doc.

[flamdchicken]

I have seemed to have killed my little voltmeter somehow. I have new one coming in. Since I have had the bike the rotor has been dead, but I am not sure about the previous owner. Apparently he was fighting some charging issues to maybe the R/R is bad as well. It seems to be doing fine though when its not hot and I am reading the battery, but I never read it to see if it was charging when hot which I plan on doing tomorrow. Hopefully that will show that it is not charging at high temps so I can be confident with swapping the R/R, but it is easily producing 14.7v or so when I first start it up in the parking lot.