starter clutch gone? parts?

[Rocky]

I had been having problems off and on with the starting mechanism but somehow they all managed to go away but probably not this time. I had the bike in storage for sometime and got it out for the summer, tuned it and the bike was running perfectly. But since the last 3 weeks or so the bike would be hard to start. The problem that I kept on having was every time I press the starter button, loud sounds would come from the bottom end, as if the cam chain is thrashing around or the gears are grinding into each other, enough to make me cringe. But after a couple of tries the engine catches and the bike starts. Also there were unusual times when the starter would just click and nothing would happen (the headlight would dim every time I hit the start button) leading me to think that the solenoid was also giving in. But a quick look to the solenoid revealed that nothing was wrong, so I thought the whole thing was weird.

Anyways, long story short, I did not ride for 5 days or so and yesterday evening I tried to start the bike and every time I hit the start button same excruciating sounds emerge from the bottom end. Like the cam chain is thrashing around, it did seem like the bike wanted to start but nothing. I stopped trying and read up on the forum regarding starter problems and came upon starter clutch problems. I think that maybe what my bike is suffering from at the moment. I've decided to undertake the job of rebuilding the starter clutch with the engine in the frame following Buber's and Ouch's directions and want to buy the parts for the rebuild. But I cannot find any links in the olds threads that work regarding finding the parts for the rebuild. If anybody could point me in the right direction then that would really helpful?

Right now my plan is to take the oil pan down and remove the clutch and check the damage. I am hoping the clutch is not smashed and I would not have to split the crankcase but it all depends on luck . I will keep everybody informed about my progress and I am planning on taking pictures during the rebuild and will post them here.

If anybody has more tips to add please do let me know.

[Volker_P]

Yes, like camchain messing around describes quite well what slipping starter clutch sounds like.
In the starter clutch thread Ibsen reported that he got the repair kit (springs and rollers) from the Dutch company CMS four years ago.
Yes, may be nice to have some pics of the tricky details of that action here.

[cb650]

It is doable. There is a thread on sohc4 also that expands a little more and has a few pics.

[Rocky]

What thread you talking about cb650? I found a very informative thread from "ouch" on the sohc4 site that did have some pictures but if there is another one then I would like to see that one as well. The more information I have the better I will be prepared for this job. And thanks for the encouragement that the job is doable. Buber's instructions in the Ibsen thread did freak me out a little bit but I think when I will have the machine opened infront of me then things will make more sense.

Volker, I will try and look up the Dutch CMS company that you speak of. There were some links for hondapartsonline.com but nothing comes up in them, even the bikebandit link is dead. I cannot find anything even remotely close to starter clutch or anything related in there.

I will keep looking though but please if anybody has rebuilt their starter clutch recently then please do let me know where you got the parts from. I will also start trolling ebay looking for starter clutches.

[cb650]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2947&p=18955#p18955
A few coments from doing Adams (now mine) bike. '
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=78920.0
Another post on it. End of page one and beginning of page 2 has pics.

[Rocky]

Thanks. All of this is very informative. I have made up my mind to do this job. I had a couple of questions though regarding the tools and clutch itself.

1. Do I need to disassemble the clutch plates? I am a little confused by Clymer, in its clutch removal section it talks about removing the 4 blots and springs and then it asks for a special clutch nut removal tool to remove the plates, hence my question. Do I have to do this? Couldn't the outer clutch housing just come off when I remove the four bolts. Sorry if the question is kind of stupid, I have never dealt with the clutch before. Also, do I need a special socket for removing the lifter guide.

2. Do I need that special slide hammer shaft and slide hammer weight to remove the primary shaft? Or I could just pull it out as shown on the sohc4 site. Sorry getting a little confused reading online and reading from the book.

3. So after I remove the primary shaft, the s. clutch will be held in place by the 3 torx bolts and I need a special tool mentioned in the book to remove them, right?

4. Also, I am thinking of buying a used s.clutch from ebay. I found one from 1979 cb650, will this one fit in my 1980 cb650c? And since we are on the topic, would any other year like 1981 or 1982 also work? I am inspired from Ibsen's idea, I will buy a used one and rebuild and then just swap it with broken one that I have.

Thanks in advance for these answers. tomorrow, I will head to Honda dealership and try and see if they have the rollers and plungers. If they don't then I will order from CMS.

[cb650]

1 you dont need to disassemble the clutch it just needs to come off. The tool is easier but u can use a hammer and punch.
2 No slide hammer it might be a little stubborn but it will come out. We just used pry bar but be carefull what part u pry against.
3 Yes youll need the torx bit. Available most anywhere. Get a driver type and a 1/4" socket type just to cover your bases.
4 79-82 sohc 650 will all work.
Dont get discouraged over it. It's easier that it seems.

[Ouch]

OH i want to chime in...it is easy....daunting task at first but once you get it apart it was easy....

once you get the information entered on your bike...hondapartsnation.com has them..the page you want is "primary sheet"

Part Part # Price
Spring Cap 28126-323-000 3=3.25
Spring 28125-426-000 3=1.48
Roller 91101-377-000 3=1.95
Dowel 94303-08140 1=.99

[Rocky]

Thanks cb650 for the answers and the special insight on the torx bit. I will get those ones. And I will go ahead and buy the used s.clutch that ways I will always have a spare.

Ouch: thanks man, those part numbers would be really helpful in tracking the parts now. I am first thinking of trying the Honda dealership here to get these parts if they have them. I have to go there anyways to get a new o-rings for the oil sump and oil pan gasket. I thought that I should freshen everything up as well since I will be disassembling it and who knows what has happened in the last 30 years!

[Ouch]

Rocky: when you do yours do your own write up about on here with pics an directions. That way we have more than one from different angels and perspectives.

[cb650]

When Adam and I was doing his I wanted to get more pics but we also did a couple other things so the idea of pics didnt seem to important.

[Volker_P]

....but we also did a couple other things so the idea of pics didnt seem to important.

The loss of importance may be nicely explained by these "other things" being somehow related to the tin cans on the pictures.

[Ouch]

....but we also did a couple other things so the idea of pics didnt seem to important.

The loss of importance may be nicely explained by these "other things" being somehow related to the tin cans on the pictures.

ha....i second that one Volker

[Rocky]

I was able to get the plungers, rollers and springs ordered from the local Honda dealer yesterday. Thankfully, they still make them somewhere. The item numbers helped a lot. Thanks! The grand total was $22.99. They said the parts would be here wednesday. I also ordered the o-rings for the oil sump and oil filter gasket, which were an additional $20. Damn the o-rings are expensive. Anyways, I also went ahead and ordered a used starter clutch from ebay for $55, it includes the primary shaft as well, so I will have a spare as well. As soon as that comes in I will go ahead and rebuild it with new springs and rollers.

I re-read Buber's post and found that a 24mm socket is required to unlock the clutch locknut and it has four grooves on it. I will just buy a 24mm socket and fashion the tool myself.

I think I have covered all my bases so far and now have to wait for the parts.

Another stupid question: Should I remove the starter itself from the engine before going after the starter clutch? Removing it is irrelevant.

[cb650]

I wish the cans was the other things we dealt with.